Comments on: All the King’s Men http://www.personism.com/2007/04/26/all-the-kings-men/ You just go on your nerve. Thu, 28 Aug 2008 01:55:59 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: Bursera http://www.personism.com/2007/04/26/all-the-kings-men/#comment-19500 Bursera Wed, 15 Aug 2007 21:30:06 +0000 http://www.personism.com/2007/04/26/all-the-kings-men/#comment-19500 The only issues of Tokion I have were sent to me as payment for my contribution of several photos to a recent issue. Never got the tiny sum I was promised months ago. They evidently have more to worry about than sexism or integrity. Perhaps art is just a printable commodity to them. Buy low, sell high, ignore the haters. I'm curious if they're offering money to anyone else with photos on Flickr, then screwing them over. The only issues of Tokion I have were sent to me as payment for my contribution of several photos to a recent issue. Never got the tiny sum I was promised months ago. They evidently have more to worry about than sexism or integrity. Perhaps art is just a printable commodity to them. Buy low, sell high, ignore the haters.

I’m curious if they’re offering money to anyone else with photos on Flickr, then screwing them over.

]]> By: richard http://www.personism.com/2007/04/26/all-the-kings-men/#comment-11515 richard Sat, 28 Apr 2007 21:03:55 +0000 http://www.personism.com/2007/04/26/all-the-kings-men/#comment-11515 does anyone still read tokion? such a poor, hateful little publication i'm surprised you can summon the energy to be bothered does anyone still read tokion? such a poor, hateful little publication i’m surprised you can summon the energy to be bothered

]]> By: Donald Giannatti http://www.personism.com/2007/04/26/all-the-kings-men/#comment-11512 Donald Giannatti Sat, 28 Apr 2007 19:30:31 +0000 http://www.personism.com/2007/04/26/all-the-kings-men/#comment-11512 While I think that the work is kinda uninspiring, a little "artsy-predictable" and such, I find that looking at the outcome and drawing references to a quota system bothers me a bit. In Phoenix we have literally only a couple of women who are working and members of ASMP. And being a member doesn't mean that everyone is working, it is a membership that runs the gamut from very busy pros to hangers on. Phoenix is the fifth or sixth largest city... It is what it is. I have had 7 women assistants though the years. I wanted to encourage women to enter the field and I also found that they were far more reliable than the guys. None of them went on to be photographers. Before I got too disparaging on this result I would like to know if the judges knew whose work they were judging (which would suck), how many entered and of those that entered how many were women? Then it could be determined if "foul" is a justification. My daughters ice skate. I can tell you that way more (95%) of the ice skating medals won outside of major competition are won by women. If we apply the same logic, we can say that is not fair at all. Until we realize that even less than that % are male. Not a criticism, but more an attempt to make some clarity. When we look at outcomes and judge the process as unfair, then we commit an error in our methodology and that serves noone. cheers, While I think that the work is kinda uninspiring, a little “artsy-predictable” and such, I find that looking at the outcome and drawing references to a quota system bothers me a bit. In Phoenix we have literally only a couple of women who are working and members of ASMP. And being a member doesn’t mean that everyone is working, it is a membership that runs the gamut from very busy pros to hangers on. Phoenix is the fifth or sixth largest city… It is what it is. I have had 7 women assistants though the years. I wanted to encourage women to enter the field and I also found that they were far more reliable than the guys. None of them went on to be photographers.

Before I got too disparaging on this result I would like to know if the judges knew whose work they were judging (which would suck), how many entered and of those that entered how many were women? Then it could be determined if “foul” is a justification.

My daughters ice skate. I can tell you that way more (95%) of the ice skating medals won outside of major competition are won by women. If we apply the same logic, we can say that is not fair at all. Until we realize that even less than that % are male.

Not a criticism, but more an attempt to make some clarity. When we look at outcomes and judge the process as unfair, then we commit an error in our methodology and that serves noone.

cheers,

]]> By: Jen Bekman http://www.personism.com/2007/04/26/all-the-kings-men/#comment-11433 Jen Bekman Fri, 27 Apr 2007 18:36:04 +0000 http://www.personism.com/2007/04/26/all-the-kings-men/#comment-11433 Hey, Jen... you seem to be correct. When I poked around yesterday, I saw something that referred to Flynn as a "he", then I dug deeper and saw an interview with a her. I'm actually not entirely sure about whether it changes my point or not. It's still a shitty ratio, but as Alison points out, they're really not so much after the chick market and as Jesse points out, the contest may well be just a advertising tool more than anything. (Although, and obviously I am biased, I don't think all contests/competitions are that.) I have more thoughts about this, and about the whole issue in general that will have to wait 'til the weekend - there's an opening at <a href="http://www.jenbekman.com/" rel="nofollow">the gallery</a> tonight that I must go off and prepare for. Hey, Jen… you seem to be correct. When I poked around yesterday, I saw something that referred to Flynn as a “he”, then I dug deeper and saw an interview with a her.

I’m actually not entirely sure about whether it changes my point or not. It’s still a shitty ratio, but as Alison points out, they’re really not so much after the chick market and as Jesse points out, the contest may well be just a advertising tool more than anything. (Although, and obviously I am biased, I don’t think all contests/competitions are that.)

I have more thoughts about this, and about the whole issue in general that will have to wait ’til the weekend - there’s an opening at the gallery tonight that I must go off and prepare for.

]]> By: jen http://www.personism.com/2007/04/26/all-the-kings-men/#comment-11431 jen Fri, 27 Apr 2007 17:48:25 +0000 http://www.personism.com/2007/04/26/all-the-kings-men/#comment-11431 I just want to point out that I think Flynn Larsen is a woman. Not that that really changes your point that much. I could be wrong but I seem to remember seeing the pronoun she used in context of Flynn's work. I just want to point out that I think Flynn Larsen is a woman. Not that that really changes your point that much. I could be wrong but I seem to remember seeing the pronoun she used in context of Flynn’s work.

]]> By: Jesse http://www.personism.com/2007/04/26/all-the-kings-men/#comment-11429 Jesse Fri, 27 Apr 2007 17:24:14 +0000 http://www.personism.com/2007/04/26/all-the-kings-men/#comment-11429 I wonder what the statisitcal ratio of male to female entries was for this particular contest. Is there a way to obtain this information? Were the judges shown names, gender, statements, or maybe even art school affiliation with the images? Does this happen with most contests or are you judges out there just shown images? If these judges are shown such data, what is more of concern is the idea that these ubiquitous New York photography contests are becoming more and more a political, cliquey, self-serving, advertising tool. Let alone a way for the organizers to make money on entry fees. It seems to have nothing to do with image making. I believe the title of the contest was referencing an old cowboy song. Could be wrong, but if so, it is worth a poetic ponder over its greater meaning. http://www.cowboylyrics.com/lyrics/miller-roger/king-of-the-road-1164.html On a final note, and I will be the first to point this out it seems, is what an extraordinary group of uninspiring work: http://www.tokion.com/kingoftheroad/html/index.html I wonder what the statisitcal ratio of male to female entries was for this particular contest. Is there a way to obtain this information?

Were the judges shown names, gender, statements, or maybe even art school affiliation with the images? Does this happen with most contests or are you judges out there just shown images? If these judges are shown such data, what is more of concern is the idea that these ubiquitous New York photography contests are becoming more and more a political, cliquey, self-serving, advertising tool. Let alone a way for the organizers to make money on entry fees. It seems to have nothing to do with image making.

I believe the title of the contest was referencing an old cowboy song. Could be wrong, but if so, it is worth a poetic ponder over its greater meaning. http://www.cowboylyrics.com/lyrics/miller-roger/king-of-the-road-1164.html

On a final note, and I will be the first to point this out it seems, is what an extraordinary group of uninspiring work: http://www.tokion.com/kingoftheroad/html/index.html

]]> By: Alison http://www.personism.com/2007/04/26/all-the-kings-men/#comment-11426 Alison Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:56:23 +0000 http://www.personism.com/2007/04/26/all-the-kings-men/#comment-11426 I think the point is more that, the panel was decidedly male (barring one woman), and it's funny that as a result one woman was a winner. This is a larger issue in the arts and creative fields, not just photography. Professionally, while there are of course some amazing larger than life talented women in the field, it's predominantly more male. It's a topic which comes up in many groups, not just here. In conferences, in awards, in work. The question is why are women not equal in representation within the arts? It can't be said that as a gender women aren't as good as men at creative endeavors can it? So why the disparity? I think the point is more that, the panel was decidedly male (barring one woman), and it’s funny that as a result one woman was a winner. This is a larger issue in the arts and creative fields, not just photography. Professionally, while there are of course some amazing larger than life talented women in the field, it’s predominantly more male. It’s a topic which comes up in many groups, not just here. In conferences, in awards, in work. The question is why are women not equal in representation within the arts? It can’t be said that as a gender women aren’t as good as men at creative endeavors can it? So why the disparity?

]]> By: adam http://www.personism.com/2007/04/26/all-the-kings-men/#comment-11424 adam Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:39:59 +0000 http://www.personism.com/2007/04/26/all-the-kings-men/#comment-11424 how do you know they even looked at the names of the photographers when they chose them? maybe the images they chose just happened to be male. i have red hair, and i was wondering if any of the winners or panel have red hair? if they dont, then WHAT THE FUCK!!!! are they trying to say red heads cant take photographs?!?!?!? im insulted. how do you know they even looked at the names of the photographers when they chose them? maybe the images they chose just happened to be male.

i have red hair, and i was wondering if any of the winners or panel have red hair? if they dont, then WHAT THE FUCK!!!! are they trying to say red heads cant take photographs?!?!?!? im insulted.

]]> By: Alison http://www.personism.com/2007/04/26/all-the-kings-men/#comment-11423 Alison Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:32:13 +0000 http://www.personism.com/2007/04/26/all-the-kings-men/#comment-11423 Look, Scion was a sponsor, and Scion likes 'em young and male: http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2007-04-26-scion-usat_N.htm Look, Scion was a sponsor, and Scion likes ‘em young and male: http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2007-04-26-scion-usat_N.htm

]]> By: Gong Szeto http://www.personism.com/2007/04/26/all-the-kings-men/#comment-11391 Gong Szeto Fri, 27 Apr 2007 02:43:55 +0000 http://www.personism.com/2007/04/26/all-the-kings-men/#comment-11391 but aren't cameras metaphors for penises anyway? kidding aside, inequality has been a problem for a long time, getting better, but far from perfect. anytime anyone stands up while everyone is sitting down is by definition courageous. ((((jen)))) are you pickin' up what i'm puttin' down? but aren’t cameras metaphors for penises anyway?

kidding aside, inequality has been a problem for a long time, getting better, but far from perfect. anytime anyone stands up while everyone is sitting down is by definition courageous. ((((jen))))

are you pickin’ up what i’m puttin’ down?

]]>